Fresh Produce: Fox Float iCD Electronic Suspension
The question has to be, is this a case of massive technology overkill??
I’m not going to beat about the bush here, and you guys are more than welcome to shoot me down if you don’t agree, but as this new Fox Float iCD system stands I reckon it’s a case of massive technology overkill. What is it? Well essentially Fox have taken (under agreement) Shimano’s Di2 electronic shifting technology (as seen on their Dura Ace and Ultegra road groupsets) and used to to control the lockout on their Float forks and rear shocks. Yes, that really is the crux of it. All that extra weight and complexity (and surely cost) just to be be able to lock your suspension out. The system can either be used with just a fork where you simply have the option of ‘climb’ or ‘descend’, or it will control both your fork and rear shock, and in that case you can have ‘descend’, rear shock ‘climb’, or both fork and shock ‘climb’. Personally I have never felt the need for remote switches to control these things, and if I did need it I would much prefer just a simple cable doing the job. I also find it strange that it’s only recently that Fox launched the new three position (climb, trail, descend) Float rear shock, and yet this new system takes us back to just two positions. More technology yet less options.
It also has to be said that this system doesn’t exactly look that pretty, and that’s even when it has been mounted to a bike which has integrated the cables as much as possible. It’s actually making me mad just thinking about it. As for the ‘PC Interface’ which allows customization of the remote switch and diagnostic tools, call me sceptical but I wouldn’t be that surprised if it ends up not being much more than a way to work out what has gone wrong with all the electronic gubbins.
So yeah, I am clearly not a fan of how this system stands at the moment, but I do think it brings up a few interesting questions about this kind of technology in future. I think the main reason why I don’t get what Fox are currently offering is because it doesn’t seem to really offer anything more than what we already have, but surely this kind of technology does have great potential. Imagine if it had full data logging capabilities, and you could have pre-sets for different tracks and conditions. Maybe that’s going over the top, but basically I think to warrant the extra complexity etc then the system has to offer much more.
I’ve kind of got a feeling that Fox are testing the water with this electronic stuff, but is this the best way to do it? I suppose if it proves to be very reliable then maybe it will help pave the way for better stuff in future. I remember when people thought the idea of using hydraulic brakes was ridiculous, so maybe we’re at a similar point now? It should also be said that the Di2 groupsets that Shimano make are pretty incredible, and I would eat my hat if they haven’t had an electronic version of XTR working for quite some time, so maybe by letting Fox use the technology first in the world of mountain bikes (and before you say it, I know other people have used electronics in the past, but not in recent years, or with the clout of Fox) they’re getting Fox to try and clear the way for a smooth launch of Di2 XTR. Of course, all this is my speculation, but if this system proves to be a complete flop then I’d be very surprised if Shimano release electronic mountain bike gears any time soon. Of course if the opposite is true then I am sure Shimano won’t hang about.
Anyway, you’ve probably got it by now that we’re not at all convinced by this new system, but then maybe part of that is because we’re not out and out XC racers. Maybe for those guys being able to instantly lockout all your suspension from your bars is an absolute must. In that case I suppose you have to decide if a few cables are better than some wires, a battery, and a bulky looking box fixed to your rear shock.
In the mean time though this new iCD kit will be available around September time and here’s the full marketing speak from Fox themselves…
FOX 2013 Product Update: Float iCD
Systematic Approach
For 2013, FOX has taken on a more systematic approach to ride dynamics. Through testing and riding, we have learned to develop the front and rear suspension together as a unit to provide the most balanced feel. With that in mind, FOX has developed innovative concepts that design the fork and shock as a system to offer the best performance and control.
iRD
Intelligent Ride Dynamics (iRD) is FOX’s categorization for electronic products employing non-traditional solutions to help customers improve their ride experience. Items under the iRD umbrella will directly address a rider’s individual needs, be very intuitive and provide features beyond what has traditionally been offered.
Float iCD
Integrating FOX’s systematic approach to suspension tuning with iRD, Float iCD takes cross country and trail riding to a higher level. Float iCD integrates an electronic actuated system into FOX’s proven Float fork and shock designs to adjust between Climb and Descend modes. The system offers fast activation and effortless operation.
Working with Shimano, Float iCD shares features with Shimano’s E-Tube electronic shifting technology. Float iCD uses Power-Line-Communication (PLC) that allows data and power to flow along a single wire. This permits minimal wiring and ease of set-up, using only three wires for full suspension bikes and two wires for front suspension bikes. The system also has a PC interface option that allows customization of the remote switch function and provides access to diagnostic tools, switch operation counting and firmware updates.
Float iCD offers improved performance over standard remote and non-remote systems. The front and rear suspension are controlled with a single remote switch and activation requires minimal hand movement from the grip, allowing the rider to quickly adapt to sudden changes in trail conditions. The ease of use and very low remote activation force equals less rider fatigue and encourages increased use over other systems. Float iCD is also easy to setup, has improved reliability over mechanical cable remote systems and offers long battery life.
Details
Fork features: Internal actuator unit, Factory series with FIT damper and Kashima-coated upper tubes, 100mm or 120mm, 26” or 29” wheel, and 9mm or 15QR axle options.
Shock features: External actuator unit, Factory series with Kashima-coated body and air sleeve, 6.5×1.5” to 7.875×2.0” sizes, and standard or large eyelet air volume options.
Remote Switch: Right or left mounting option, two or three position rotary switch, non-contact operation and integrated battery low feature.
Full Suspension System: System includes fork, shock, battery, battery bracket and remote switch with three cables linking the system together, left or right remote mounting options, three mode positions – Climb, Climb (Rear Only) and Descend.
Front Suspension System: System includes fork, battery, battery bracket and remote switch with two cables linking the system together, left or right remote mounting options, two mode positions – Climb and Descend.
Battery Life: In excess of 2.5 months (results may vary)
Actuation Time: 0.25 seconds for fork, 0.45 seconds for shock
Full Suspension Weight: Starting at 1860g / 4.10lbs
Front Suspension Weight: Starting at 1555g / 3.43lbs
Agree completely.
You’ll be so gutted when the battery dies at the top of a downhill with the shock locked out.
I can see people buying it though. Although I don’t think anyone that rides regularly will want this.
If they could link the system into the drivetrain so that the suspension knew what cadence you were pedalling at and then somehow prevented the suspension from responding to forces at the same frequency as your cadence whilst remaining fully active to all other input frequencies, then we would have something. If all it does is lock your suspension when you push a button then “meh”.
Oh dear. Scott seem to love the thought of cramming as many cables into their bikes as possible. I’m just waiting for remote compression damping or remote psi adjustment so you can have cables coming from each side of the crown.
Didn’t Greg Minnar run something similar on his Honda RN01 a few years back at the Willingen World Cup?
This could be the start of something massive. I agree it sounds like a small mundane start. For starters you would have remote adjustment of compression and rebound. Then add a few sensors and you could start to detect what the optimal rebound/ compression settings are. Imagine downloading your shock forces vs travel to your PC, its a fiddlers dream! The PC could then eb capable of performing an auto-tune to assist riders with shock setup, by looking at the results as well as adding in a few rider stats (weight, bike etc). Then take it a step further for racers, using GPS data or even wheel distance you could have different suspension profiles for different sections of the course. No need for rider input just fully automated suspension tuning based on position on the track. The possibilities are huge really. PS does Fox want to give me a job working on this
I’m glad to see they made it look so tidy and integrated and not like a huge black box strapped to the shock in any way
Love the honesty of the intro. Having pedalled a scott genius LT with remote lockout/pro pedal on the rear, I do think there is some potential for remotely locking out suspension on enduro bikes.
But like Ed said tho, why go electric? Maybe if it was wireless transmission, but you would still have to sort out power.
I’d be more impressed if they managed to make their talas feel as good as a float…
I would have thought this was a first toe in the water to bringing something like MagneRide adaptive suspension to bikes – which could be amazing if the weight issues could be got round.
However, for me electrics and mountain bikes are a no go, I just can’t be bothered with the faff of finding my bike’s battery is flat. I like the simplicity of a mechanical system, it’s part of the joy of bikes for me.
im with you guys on this….that looks ridiculous…..and think of the poor bike shop trying to fix those bloody things…..another barrel load of part specific tools to own……that is basically another way of complicating the crap out of a simple machine.
“The ease of use and very low remote activation force equals less rider fatigue”….that lockout switch on my shock sure is tiring….there scraping the barrel to justify this
I agree totally.
I think its more xc people who will be using it and of course people who care more about fashion (rather than actual riding).
Hmmm… another demonstration of why my new Cotic will have a BOS shock and a Marzocchi fork. I really don’t get where the money goes in Fox suspension, this must have cost a nice chunk of money to license, why not put that cash into quality control, or speccing the SKF seals so they, y’know, seal. Or even a couple of new anodising baths for the stanchions.
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@Ed, I see a future in electrnoic damper controls, but lockout does seem a bit silly. A 2 or 3 setting system where you can control the compression rates of both ends at the touch of a button would be great. Or even a button based ‘stiffen up’ rather than lockout, hit the button, compression gets harder, stays that way until a big hit, when the electronics open the fork/shock up together, stays open until you the rider hits the button again. Like SPV without the ankle-breaking.
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You could improve sealing dramatically too, there would be no need for a direct mechanical link to the shock internals, just a connector. But maybe ‘Fox’ and ‘better seals’ is a little too far…
Well, that’s one way to get rid of that useless pro pedal. Crap like this is why it’s easier to see why bmx and moto will always be bigger than mtb.
I guess 820mm bars is what you’ ll need to have enough real estate to run all the controls you think you’ll need..auto tune is to bikes as it is for singers
What a load of twoddle. I want less cables on my bike, not more.
is this a very overdue april fools? “more reliable than mechanical” despite the fact that the battery life is only “2.5 months (results may vary)”. load of shite.
On a completely random note, I must say, that having used and set up Shimano Dura-Ace Di2 the other day, and it’s a fantastic system! Didn’t help that the guys bike had a bent mech hanger and an oil and grit caked drivetrain though.
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I’m kinda thinking that it’s possibly another collaboration between Fox and Shimano, as it was with Shimano’s help that Fox produced the 15QR axle system. SO, I’m thinking that perhaps they know that 11 speed Shimano XTR is due out in the future and they know something we don’t… That Fox and Shimano will collaborate in making electric gears and suspension that are intertwined somewhat. Perhaps?Even just to decrease the mess on bikes at the moment – with all the cables they can have.
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Bikes are getting super complex and I am wondering of I’m going to have to take an electricians course too at some point in the future. I do miss the simplicity, but knowing the quality of Fox and their internals, I have no plan to use another company just yet.
Pointless, the Simon project by Cannondale had far more going for it.
Is its April 1st again and I have been in a coma? if not then yes, with the possible future features wound up inside the unit they could make it worthwhile, but in it’s current state – what a load of BO**OX ! Of course that is what they want us to say and also I imagine why we are seeing it, so you have to ask the question – why??? 1 word springs to mind for me though regardless of how clever it gets – CRASH.
I see this as a tentative first step. It’s certainly not something for the DH boys or even the mainstream just yet. But Fox employ someone a Dr. Dave Batterbee who built a terrain-sensing magnetorheological shock (I think) for mountain bikes. That’s the direction I see this technology heading.
FU@£%NG Gameboy
more cables, bottle cages, carry bags, bells and anything else to make my expensive ride look even better please
I would not run this if it came with three magic beans and the hand of mr shimanos daughter. My bike is not battery powered in anyway and never will be. Except the lights. Although there not really part of the “bike”. Real speak
I’m going to try and take it all back to the old-pre-skool here… anyone remember how successful girvin and pro-flex were with the battery powered damping controls on the girvin parallel linkage forks (not flex stems, no need to go crazy!) and the pro flex frames (maybe an 856 or something?). I think they were toting figures of 80 measurements a second and auto damping adjustments – these were commecially available bikes, I had the job of selling them! (note this may have been circa ’96 – it was either these, an LTS or a ‘posh activator’!
As an electronics engineer I get pissed off when I see electronics stuffed into devices to make them 100x more complex with only 1% benefit,
I would agree that this is technology for technologies sake!
In fact I see almost zero benefit with the DI2 system. If it isn’t wireless, then it is a waste of time!!
And from a wireless point of view, why is nobody trying Piezo powered wireless transceivers.
the box will heat up the shock.
This is why i have gone back to a Hardtail! I like Riding not wasting hours setting up stuff that wont even improve the way i ride.
I think this is a glimpse into the future, rather than a product that Fox/ Shimano will be selling in the near future.
Maybe a bit premature of them to announce this early incarnation as it is drawing a lot of flak. On the otherhand, it shows that they are at the ‘cutting edge’ of technological development. Got people talking if nothing else!
Disaree…. this is what we all need…
I feel at this moment in time our bars are bare and Fox`s prices are so reasonable that i`d be happy to pay an extra hundred quid so i don`t have to reach down to my shock…
Mackeroo…this stuff is due to go on sale in september!!!
Dear Mr Fox-Shimano
Please get back to me when you make a small single bar mounted system that wirelessly controls my gravity dropper and locks my forks and shock out independantly – ideally solar/dynamo powered.
Thanks
More importantly, what are those tyres? Maxxis prototypes?
Looks very much like the Noleen Smart shock from many many years ago seen on bikes like the K2 Animal! infact i think i’ve still got one kicking around in the garage somehwere.
I just came upon this documentary from Adam Curtis: Anyone interested in history of product marketing and selling people stuff that they don’t need:
“The Century Of The Self”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxfArTAcfM
calm down. people (dirt included) bum the massively over complicated canecreek double barrel where you have to spend hours perfecting it for your track/bike/personal preference. mountain biking/cycling/all other outdoor activities are inherently geeky and ‘gear freak’ orientated. I mean lets look at, indexing gears, disc brakes, suspension, vpp/dw rearward axle path progressive shock rate, dropper post, remote dropper post, cable operated lockout – bullshit jargon. Why don’t we all go back to fixed gear lug and tube bikes made from mild steel and while we’re at it forget the pneumatic tyre?
Fox in creating products to sell shocker (no pun intended). While we’re at it I think we should go back to living in caves. Just because you know all this modernised/mechanised living is just not right.
Also I just thought I think dirt should go back to not having a website and go back to only the printed word. Or even better forget the printed word you could hand write every article (though without the grammar and spell check the articles will make even less sense).
Oh hang on isn’t dirts only real point of existing to review new products so to encourage people to buy new products? No doubt you’ll be bumming this in two years time.
What exactly is wrong with a cable again? Bet it’s lighter than all that stuff as well…
Still haven’t read this article, can’t get past playing with the new gallery display. Tidy work indeed.
If Fox want to introduce electronic control to suspension, then so be it. Several people have made reasonable suggestions about how an electromechanical control might be leveraged to offer all sorts of features in future.
However, I have to agree with the naysayers in the most part, what they are offering here is shit, badly executed and offers nothing new at all. As a frist step in development, it makse sense to replicate an existing [mechanical] system for comparison, but actually going out and trying to sell it sinks of profiteering. Get a grip Fox.
Incidentally, here’s a decent explanation of the Cannondale Simon project fork, which is not for production, but far more interesting: http://video.aol.com/aolvideo/engadget/cannondale-simon-electronic-suspension-hands-on-full/61096246001
Next is ABS for brakes and traction control for uphills in wet. But the absolute future is your own clone sent to Soviet Space Center to train with world’s best riders, so you can send him riding with your buddies.
How sad indeed bike gets better while engine still sucks and you can’t buy anything that can improve it…
you could train to improve your engine?
Actually, I think for the pro xc boys this will be massive. It’s akin to the difference between down tube levers and sti’s on a road bike in a sprint. Battery is too big for pro use, though – no need for that amount of juice.
Alex
Engine can be, and should be trained but it is not a message that industry pushes forward. What goes through is: buy stuff to be faster. And it is easier to buy stuff than to train. I might be paranoid but such atmosphere around bike-tech they build up seems to dicourage me from training…
Is it April the first again?
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