Kona 2011 Sneak Peeks – Operator DH
Kona have been working on a new 2011 range, here’s a peek at their downhill bike, the Operator.
Ever since the demise of the full Kona Factory Team with Barel and Moseley, Kona have been off the radar a touch, I know Joe Smith has had some great World Cup results recently, but it’s good to hear of some new developments.
Rather than something totally new the Operator looks more like a tweaked Stab, keeping the tried and tested 4 bar and adding a 1.5 Zero Stack tapered headtube and a bit of swoop to the front triangle.
Have a read of what Kona Freeride/DH product manager Chris Mandell says below:
2011 Operator DH
Current 2010 Stab Supreme
The bike looks like a four bar, what makes this different from a Stab or a Stinky?
This bike represents a whole new platform for us, and there are a lot of neat little details to discuss. The bike is a 4-bar. Tried and true, refined, rather than a “regurgitation with facelift” like many of the “new” designs currently hitting the market.
What new suspension characteristics are we hoping to achieve with this bike?
We set out to create a bike that was sensitive off the top and ramped up consistently throughout the travel. We also wanted a bike that maintained good suspension characteristics under heavy side load. Our test bikes have performed flawlessly in this department.
The pivots are massive, what’s the deal?
You noticed. We are using very large bearings and aluminum axles at every pivot. The main pivot and rocker pivot use the same bearing, an 6903-2RS1 with 17mm inner diameter, 40mm outer diameter and a width of 12mm. The chain stay to seat stay and seat stay to rocker pivots use 66200-2RS1 which has a 10mm inner diameter, 30mm outer and 9mm width. You’ll notice that the pivot bolts for chain stay and rocker pivots are in double shear. This feature adds a bit of complexity and cost to the frame but it greatly increases frame stiffness and bearing life.
We went large for a number of reasons. Bigger bearings are more durable than smaller bearings. They resist contamination failure better and will not bind under high loads. Another reason we went big with the bearings was that it allowed us to design our pivot bolts and pivot axles out of lightweight aluminum. As you know a tube can be made lighter and stronger by increasing the diameter.
What’s the deal with the headset?
Head tubes have changed a lot in the last few years. 1-1/8 to 1.5 to tapered 1.5 to… 1.5 Zero Stack tapered. Sometimes I think that bicycle manufactures need to offer apologies to our customers for the confusion. But every step of the way I assure you we tried to make bikes better. This latest change is not an attempt to stay vogue. 1.5 Zero Stack tapered is truly the best system to date.
The minimalistic lower cup houses a 1.5 bearing inside the head tube away from mud and muck spray, as well as your pressure washer. Regardless of if you are running a fork with a tapered steerer tube or 1-1/8 you will always have a robust 1.5 bearing. The 1-1/8 upper and 1.5 lower bearings are both angular contact bearings. Should it ever come time to replace them it is as simple as removing the fork and catching the bearing as falls from the frame. And they are inexpensive.
How much does it weigh?
Wow, you waited until the 5th question to ask this! I usually get this is the second or third. And I always preface my answer to this question by stating that weight reduction, while a distinct concern of ours, took a back seat to the suspension performance, frame durability and overall weight distribution (which we wanted low and centered on the bike). That said, our medium sample frames came in at 8.46 lbs (no shock). This is a full pound and a half lighter than our previous offering and will run solid season after season.
What are the early test results saying?
That this bike is epically sweet. Stable when charging the chunder. Pops out of turns. Pedals in the rough. Super balanced when jumping. In a word, awesome.
hmm looks like a trek or a new ghost to me… well – not that big technology leap…
Looks great…
….Until they plaster horrible cartoon Kona stickers all over her!
that really looks like blood on the forth pic down :/
“This bike represents a whole new platform for us, and there are a lot of neat little details to discuss. The bike is a 4-bar. Tried and true, refined, rather than a “regurgitation with facelift” like many of the “new” designs currently hitting the market.”
^^Is it just me or does this statement contradict itself?!?!
No pivot on the chain stay is `faux bar` surely?
Would link operated single pivot be better?
Yeh Gav, thought the same. A comment in the vein of Santa Cruzes “anti marketing” APP crap.
While it doesn’t look too innovative, they’ve “Glorified” the front triangle of a Stab a bit, I’m sure it will be a well performing, durable downhill bike to add to the choice which can’t be a bad thing.
I knew there’d have to be a fecking faux bar comment come up. Four bar is four bar. Bar 1: the seat tube. Bar 2: the chainstay. Bar 3: the seatstay. Bar four: the rocker arms. FSR is four bar with a horst link.
Rodney, I’m not sure that’s right, it’s all about pivot placement isn’t it…the faux bar has a pivot above the rear axle on the seat stay, the 4 bar link has the rear pivot on the chainstay. Didn’t Horst design it then Spesh buy it off him and call it the FSR?
looks good, can’t wait to see it in the flesh. stab needed a bit of a facelift
Where the pivot is doesn’t matter when you’re looking at a four bar system. All you need is 4 bars. The horst design places the pivot on the chainstay and yes, Specialized purchased the design from Horst. The faux bar tag is used by those who want to be pedantic about the horst link. Keeping in mind what I said about 4 bars, have a look at VPP, Maestro etc. Hey it’s four bar too. Bar 1: seat tube. Bar 2: bottom link. Bar 3: complete rear triangle. Bar 4: top link or rocker arms. Four bar can be designed in all sorts of ways and given fancy names, but it’s still four bar.
I like the way he pretty much admits their previous bikes were / are flexy as…..
Rodney, people are not being pedantic about a Horst link, its a completely different system to the faux bar linkage. The faux bar systems axle path follows the radius around a single pivot as the wheel is attached to the chainstay. Not saying that’s a bad thing, its just different! It would share more characteristics with a linkage driven single pivot than a Horst link.
Blah blah blah blah, the comments here are moronic. “Looks like…” this and “looks like…” that. Bunch of Cliff Clavins, spouting off irrelevant opinion as if academic fact.
You UK Chavs and your focus on what something looks like rather than how it rides, you’re comical. What do you people do, stand around at the local race hill and never ride, instead looking at each others bikes and having some sort of contest on whose looks best?
looks nice and vaguely trek like
the rocker seems a lot shorter than current stab/ stinkys, which is good tehy were looking all ungainly
and loosing some weight is no bad thing, still im guessing the v10-carbon is a fair bit lighter!
im sure it will be quality though some will still slag it because they dont like konas
tracey mosely has done no better on her trek wonder bike than she ever did on her old kona stab
If it aint broke! With a good shock and dialled in geo this will rip!
looks nice… but knowing kona its not going to be an improvement and its going to break and ride like crap
!
Rodney is correct. AND faux bar is still a linkage driven single pivot.
“Where the pivot is doesn’t matter when you’re looking at a four bar system”
Rodney, it actually does matter, it makes a huge difference where the pivots are, even on “faux-bar” (rocker activated single-pivot) bikes
if you compare a Kona “faux-bar” to a Banshee “faux-bar” the suspension rides very differently – moving any pivot even 1mm on a faux-bar has a dramatic effect on the suspension performance
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its also true for the “four-bar” (FSR / chainstay pivot) designs – if you compared a Specialized Demo 8, to a La Pierre 920 DH, to a Devinci Wilson or Norco Team DH, they ride very differently bearing in mind how similar the geometry actually is – subtle differences in pivot placement brings big differences to suspension
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its great to see Kona finally doing something new with their DH platform as the Stab was a very tired design, but for proper braking performance on the rough, braking bumps – you will need a DOPE floating brake arm (which the old Stab came with) as a common characteristic of faux-bar systems is brake squat, which causes the back wheel to skip during hard braking on bumps
I’ve owned a STACK load of both faux-bar and “four-bar” (FSR) bikes before you ask….
I think he just meant that if its got four bars its a four bar, not that they all ride the same.
Rob Cole, why does this design have any worse brake squat than a single pivot/linkage activated single pivot ?
(I am genuinely asking, not disagreeing with you)
i ride a stab supreme, love it. cant wait to have a ride on the operator n see how it rides
looks horrable!
its a kona it will not be good!
never are
looks like an ugly session 8…….
I like the look of this, but it is a single pivot with a linkage driven shock. Nothing wrong with that but its not a proper four bar.
looks good, looks light but still has the long wheelbase and dosnt look like it will ride any different to the stab…
Thats just a session 88!
Finally a new bike from kona, they’ve been using pretty much the same stab since about 2006.
Kona is a waste of time. same crap different bad marketing campain
Dan – sure you don’t want to think about that? How about you go away for a while, then come back and give Kona a real shit canning!
Jack – glad you got what I was saying about four bars being four bar. I wasn’t talking about pivot placement within a four bar system and the resulting performance variables.
Can´t wait to ride this one… never had problems with the bearings on a stab and I ride this bikes since 2002. All this blahblah about inovation: Watch the all mountain bikes: The other brands were oh so innovative and all came back to 4 bar systems… cheers, Michi!
Rob Cole = Massive Tool
It is a four bar, can’t argue that, its just the axle is on the same bar as the frame which makes it a single pivot.
K
you dont seem to get much variety in the design/ style of bikes these days. they seem to all look the same, this has just joined the group along side the..
trek session 88, giant glory, sunday, mondraker and a ghost….
point taken they have different linkages but still the shape is around that type of style.
“Rob Cole = Massive Tool – It is a four bar, can’t argue that, its just the axle is on the same bar as the frame which makes it a single pivot.”
yeah massive tool of course, shame how you have to resort to a childish insult, instead of making an intelligent, adult comment on the dirt forum
the industry name for a horst pivot bike is “four-bar”, and for a rocker-activated single-pivot bike is “faux-bar”, its really quite simple to understand
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As an industrial designer at a leading University, and running my own bike manufacturing company (Bombproof), I was designing full suspension frames during the 1990s and was heavily involved with development of the early “horst pivot” suspension systems along with MR. Horst Leitner of AMP Research…
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…so yes, I do understand the differences between “four bar and faux-bar”
Kevin? I’d rather be a “tool” than misinformed and resorting to childish comments on a public form
Haha…you got pwnd!
Industry shmindustry. Take the axle out (cos it ain’t part of the linkage) and tell me its not a four bar link, Mr engineer.
All this controversy over a Kona…
.
The guy said its great in the ‘Chunder’ – if only i could speak Canadi-English, do you think that’s because of the Four-Faux bar suspension?
Kona says; “Walking four-bar linkage” I do recall of once reading about this system in one of their catalogs in 2006 where they called it a “high pivot” system. Kona’s linkage is less liner than the FSR linkage, perhaps Kona is better with small bump compliance but, it is not like a unified single pivot system however, it is in my best observation a single pivot if we just consider the main pivot near the BB, wheel path and the chainstays separately. You don’t say?
I do not own a Trek ABP but, as the saying goes I think they hit the nail on the head.
Dirt for thought.
Christ, when will people stop slagging kona, yeah they may not be the best but they ride ok, and the company put a lot back into the sport. Probably back more riders than most.
Far too many people are materialistic, “ooooo mines better than yours”.
The ride looks good too me and should be ok.
I really like it. Some good new ideas. Ok, so the basic frame idea looks the same as others, but why do people slag it off straight away ‘just’ because it’s a Kona.
So no mention in the article why Kona does not have the D.O.P.E Floating Brake system on this bike???.
people realy like to slag kona off on here. kona are using what they know and refining it(four bar).All of there bikes use the four plattform in principle. Even there new magic link is the four bar platform with an extra bit, which does work the 2010 coilairs and cadabras are sweet rides(flex free and stable!). Not the best specs for the money though but that’s to change for 2011 apparently.
Oh and by the way they have managed to sort out the finish on there bikes for 2011 which is good, just take a look on there website. http://www.konaworld.com
Also this bike and there coilair seems to trying to be a replacement for the Kona stinky.
well kona have done it again… made another peice of crap
i wouldnt be caught dead on a kona
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